big thrill diving!

i haven't been able to post for a while due to internet restrictions and lack of programs on hotel computers, but i had a great experience while still in borneo. the reason we went to this area is because our dive masters in thailand told us if they had our budget and time they would make their way to this place. who can argue with the dive instructors?! we made our way across the peninsulas which turned out to be a lot farther than we realized...the map never looks that big...and finally arrived in semporna, which is the base for diving a world famous site called sipadan. people flock here all year round for the copious sharks and turtles along with fantastic muck (macro) diving. they only allow 100 permits (divers and snorkelers combined) onto the site a day and those are gobbled up by the 4 or 5 scuba centers pretty quickly. it used to be open and there were even a couple rudimentary resorts there, but the government stopped that due to over use and destruction that was happening. the coral reef is such a fragile environment and with all the boats and people, sipadan was beginning to show significant damage and wear. however, typical to many developing country's governments, they saw an opportunity to monopolize the place and after sending the 2 small resorts off the island, came in with a huuuge barge, ready to build thier own resort and have sole rights. well, the barge wound up getting stuck on the reef and they couldn't unload anything for several days...yes, tons of damage was done to the coral and it made headlines (complete with photos of stranded barge) in the malaysian papers forcing the pre fabbed resort back to the mainland for good with a lot of bad press. geesh. in any case, we were on a waiting list and were very lucky to 'get the call' the night before. we had dived mabul island and kapalaii, which are nearby and were ready. sipadan is like a huge monolith coming up from the depths. so many big sharks and turtles come to this location because of the depths and food sources. also, this is where jacques cousteau filmed "turtle tomb" a long time ago. we got into the 29 degrees celsius (super warm!) water and descended into stunning azure water. since it was a more special experience and we would dive 3 times that day, i decided to try my hand at an underwater camera. it was quite challenging, but i'm happy to have had it. i got a lot of good tips before diving, but still there are just so many variables! as soon as we went down, there were white tip sharks swimming below us and green and hawksbill turtles off in the distance. it was so amazing and surreal! on one dive we went to the giant cave that is 'turtle tomb' and hung around the massive entrance for a few minutes just watching the activity. apparently, there is no light inside and it's easy to get disoriented even with a torch, so we didn't go in...and didn't want to... but there are hundreds of turtle skeletons inside. after 3 dives we were exhilerated and exhausted, but feeling very fortunate to have been granted the opportunity to dive this place. truly amazing. take a look at my photos below. at one point i got up reeeally close to a 'sleeping' turtle and then it came out of its nook right up under me! it was all i could do to get out of its path! crazy. hope you're all well. love, j

my sipadan photos

orang utans in borneo

orang utans are cool...plain and simple. they are not in a rush to get anywhere, do anything...they just hang out and enjoy kickin it. with such expressive faces though, at times, it's hard to look into their soft sweet eyes. these guys are, as the pictures show, much more used to humans than their long nosed relatives in my previous post. they've either been abandoned, born in captivity, orphaned or whatever other usually human based offense against them has occurred...but the sepilok rehabilitation center is true to its word and has re-introduced many of the primates back into the wild. some return regularly, some never again and some never want to leave the comforting platforms stocked with food! but, they are all well cared for and given their own space and time to do what they want. it's a great place. there are two feeding viewings per day the public can attend and loads of people show up, but the orang utans don't mind and even one came onto "our" platform as if it was no big thing. of course, we were all maintaining the posted silence requested, and even as the gentle beast jumped up on the platform and began walking on two legs...like a drunk man...across and hopped up the other side, people slowly moved out of its way and respected its space while only letting out a few gasps while broadening many eyes! it was great, but at no moment did we feel threatened or did the orang utan...it just casually walked off into the distance wondering why we were all looking at it! we are, once again, so fortunate to see these animals as they near extinction in the wild. beautiful...truly lovely animals. they climb through the branches and ropes so gracefully and quietly, often times clutching a baby or piece of fruit in one or two of their hands or feet. one not so delicious trait about them is that they vomit up their food and then re-eat it...that part was gross, but even with that, they were generous and let the others eat, too!! lol! i loved watching them and can imagine why some people would want them as pets with their pensive gazes and calm nature. unfortunately, most of them wind up mistreated, however unintentionally, and the lucky ones wind up at places like this. hope you're all well and enjoy the photos! drop me a comment when you can. lots of love, j

orang utan photos

up close and personal with jimmy durante monkeys

...or, they're also known as 'dutch' monkeys...or, probiscus monkeys. they're only found in the wild around this part of the world--borneo, malaysia--and we have been making our way overland across the peninsula to a dive town in the southeast. this sanctuary, in sepilok, was a great stopping point! we took a taxi waaaay off the beaten path about 30 minutes down a dirt road...well, past an oil palm plantation...more on that later. we were allowed to go in for their afternoon feeding time, otherwise, one wouldn't really get to see them as they live pretty deep in the reserve. as a worker made loud calls, you could see them working their way closer and cautiously. she called for a good 15-20 minutes before the food was brought out onto the platform and we could see them hanging around. one even came across the man made planks to be first one in line. these monkeys don't have contact with humans, but there's been land set aside for them to live. it's quite sad...there are oil palm plantations all over the place here which produce palm oil. it is malaysia's number one export and a huge money maker for them, but slowly, they are eradicating all the wild primates living places. the same is true for orang utans which i will post about next. there aren't many of either of these monkeys left and conservationists predict that there will be none in the wild in about 20 years...bummer. as we've been traversing the peninsula of borneo, we've seen tons of oil palm trucks with full harvests and hours and hours of passing plantations. man can be so stupid sometimes...geesh. the probiscus monkeys are really cool though. they're super strong and very powerful. males are distinguished by their thick fur 'jacket' it looks like they're wearing, along with bare skin resembling tighty-whities. when one comes and wants to make a show, he shakes the branches of a tree or pounds his four feet while running on the feeding platform. they're very loud and vocal. males bark at each other to establish dominance and will bare their teeth to each other. the females stick close to their troop 'leader' and he keeps a close eye on them. since the males are constantly erect with their bright red penis, they can mate quickly and at will...which was frequent while we were there! ha! oh my... it was a very interesting afternoon watching these unusual creatures. when the food was gone off the platforms, a few younger boys hung around for a few minutes playing, but mostly, they quickly lept back into the jungle and out of sight. oh, and they were fed pancakes and green melon looking fruit cause they can't digest much sugar and prefer starches. i'll include a link on the side of the blog if you're interested in learning more or donating. word of mouth is a good start at conservation... love, janice

probiscus monkey photos

more photos from diving ko haa

photos from diving

scuba diving in thailand

well, first christy had to get her padi certification to see if she would even like it! prone to liking control and not being scared or nervous, i wasn't quite sure, but she came through the course with minimal discomfort and was a trooper the whole time. while she was in class for 2 days i was roaming the beaches, getting massages, exercising, riding around on a scooter and just plain chilling. her first dive was nerve wrecking, but she got through her skills and moved on to her second dive with a little more comfort. day 2 i joined them and my first dive i did with a cool guy, paul, from ireland...love the irish! and then the second dive when christy only had a few minutes of skills to do, i joined them for the fun dive. the photographer who took all the photos is phil north of liquid lense out of england. he's great and i only included a fraction of photos he's given us. i put a lot more on facebook if you're a 'friend' of mine, but in general, the photos are fabulous and he makes us look a lot more graceful than we are! christy describes her underwater pose as something resembling a frightened kitten...while you're supposed to be streamlined, arms up under you and relaxed! lol...she did great and i was so happy to be back under the warm, turquoise water. the coral's beautiful, the fish are fantastic...some of the things we saw are puffer fish, clown fish, lion fish, scorpion fish, eels, nudi branches, barricuda, cuttlefish and tons more. it's such a peaceful feeling to be breathing underwater if you can get past the horror of it all! ha ha...the breathing from a respirator is almost meditative, i feel. and, believe it or not, you can hear the fish eating off the coral--it makes a crackling noise. good times and beautiful water! i'm so fortunate... love, j

as for the photos in the next posting, the first one is of us...me on the left, c on the right. 2nd one is us swimming, c in foreground, me farther away. 3rd one is of me doing a boat entrance and the 4th is of the islands we dived around called koh haa which means 5 islands in thai. stunning!

tiger temple outside of bangkok

you can google it for more info, but basically, it was GRRRREAT...said like tony the tiger for emphasis! i loved the place cause this thai monk (who's in one of the pics) started a sanctuary for the bengal felines and over the past 14 years has bred over 40 tigers and put them back into the wild. he rescues any animal that he can and so within the grounds there are all sorts of beasts roaming around. in the morning, the tigers are led down to the river on chains where they can play and swim for a while. then, they are led to lunch and then back into a canyon, where the photos are taken, so tourists like us can come in and be photographed with the kitties. we have to pay an entrance fee and then depending on what photos you want, an extra fee, but it was so worth it. i actually got to have 2 different tigers on my lap just out of shear luck. i asked the monk to take a photo with me and he whisked me away and, as on my facebook video, gave me a second chance to have a massive, heavy and very sleepy head in my lap! amazing! their fur is quite prickly and we were instructed to keep our touches below their head and to be firm and not light with our pets. they are not drugged, just sleepy and are treated very humanely...squirt bottles of water are used to correct behavior and train. i totally loved the place...and then you could walk around and see other tigers of different ages, as well...and maybe nibble on their ears from behind when they weren't looking! ha! oh, and the one shot of me with a fully awake and upright tiger is walking it down to the canyon after lunch. we had to line up, give our camera to the guides and stay behind the tiger. i actually got sprayed with cat pee pee which is deemed good luck...and smelly! luckily, my guide took the brunt of the tiger's squirt... oh, and it was reeeally hot there that day...i was wearing a tank top, but because it's a buddhist temple, i had to cover my shoulders. all i had on me was a cashmere sweater cause the a/c inside vehicles and buildings can be extremely cold. doh...i was sweating my butt off, but it made me feel for the tigers who can't take their sweater off the minute they leave. all for now, love, j

yakman feeding our yaks in sikkim, india

india UGH!

...well, at least the trekking in the wet and cold and the noise and bazillion people in the cities...other than that it was fun! our friend (my old peace corps buddy), anita came in for 3 weeks for the 'india leg' of our trip. we started in delhi, flew to bagdora where our guide met us and drove us into sikkim. the trek started out great with a beautiful day. we were "making a lot of sweat" as the tour guide said, so were down to short sleeves and shorts early into the trek...despite the leeches which we had to fend off with our trekking poles...eeks... day one was the highlight of the trip weather-wise though. our first night we realized our tents were virtually made of cheese cloth with a (thankfully) very durable fly. although bigger than our lil' mongolia pup tent, it was cold and didn't retain much heat. our sleeping mats were as thin as a mouse pad and my sleeping bag had a big tear on the inside. ok, so i'm used to sleeping in my clothes while trekking...and wool socks and scarf, gloves and hat. thankfully by the second night they told us they had 2 "hot water bags" for us to take with us at night into the tent...too bad there were 4 people, but it was one time i'm happy to say i'm bigger and stronger! : ) day one lunchtime, also, by the way, saw me step into some soft moss and fall backwards while yelling some really profane language...into a big healthy crop of nettles. not only did i get nettle stings all over me, but i also busted a bone below my right ring finger...fun. i was ahead of the pack, but luckily our guide was showing us where we were having lunch...the small path on which i slipped and so was close by cause i couldn't even get back up. picture an incline board of nettles...i needed a hand to get up so of course i reached out my right hand for assistance not realizing yet, that it was broken. ugh. so, some of the other highlights were christy's 40 mysterious, huge, welt-like bug bites all over her torso, anita's altitude sickness at 4,300 meters, quite a bit of rain, no place to get warm and dry, and slippery, yak poopy trails. now i'm not totally complaining...we had a lot of laughs in between our slips on our butts and made a nice new friend, sachi, who's from india. she's great and helped us pass the time in a positive way. the food was great, our porters and guides were very patient with us and all in all we had a good time, but were happy to stroll back into yuksam a day early and stay at the poshest place in town! it's good to be done with trekking for a while.

then we went to darjeeling where we soaked up beautiful views without having to trek, sipped on darjeeling teas, shopped, ate good indian food and saved a sweet little starving street puppy with the mange. time well spent.

next, we were in calcutta for a few days. we flew in and immediately the honking started as soon as we stepped foot out of the airport and didn't stop until we were back at the airport to leave. ugh. the streets of calcutta are everything mother theresa said. we went to her home and saw where she lived and then died after 40 plus years of service. geesh, what a woman. an incredible life. saw a few other sites and ate more good bengali food before making our way back to the airport to say good bye to anita and head back to thailand. we had a great time with anita for 3 weeks and were sorry to see her go. we were also truly thankful as she transported a 50 pound bag back to albuquerque for us. huge relief!! thanks anita!!

now we're in bangkok and trying to figure out our next move. i'll post about that soon, but also hope to put some more pics online as the internet is much more available now. much love, j

tashi delek

...which is hello in tibetan. we spent a long 3 weeks in the chinese province of tibet and it was some tough traveling. good, but physically draining. we spent several days in lhasa before heading across the country to mt kailash. backing up a little bit, though we took the "genocide express" up into lhasa from xining and our friend emily cautioned us that she got really sick and was puking in the bathroom due to altitude sickness...c and i, however, slept through the night and woke up expecting to go over 16,000 feet passes, but we had already been over them and had no affects. hooray! once in lhasa we were tired and our room on the 4th floor took the wind out of us every time we had to climb the steps, but after a couple days that subsided, too. lhasa is so interesting. of course, the chinese are shipping han chinese as fast as they can into the region and they now outnumber the tibetans by over 2 to 1. they've built roads, railroads, nice infrastructure, a nice airport and have "chinafied" everything they could in that gaudy neon lights and chinese pagoda style entrances as much as possible. for example, outside THE most tibetan building ever, the potala palace, which is all crimson and white with some black accents, they have added a green and yellow pagoda entrance way and big chinese lion statues on either side. it looks so out of place. and, across the street, there is a huge, phallic like military monument to the "peaceful takeover of tibet" that has to be guarded 24 hours a day to eliminate vandalism...go figure. everywhere we went along the trip east to kailash where tourists would stop (are allowed to stop) there was a similar monument across from the monasteries. there's so much to say about this trip...the tibetan buddhist faith seems to be alive and well despite the constant armed military presence in lhasa and all of the many, many checkpoints along the roads. every day there were hundreds of pilgrims doing prostrations in front of every buddhist monument/monastery (most of which were rebuilt after being destroyed in the cultural revolution...luckily they spared the potala palace) and everywhere in lhasa there were buddhists circumambulating whatever they could whilst spinning prayer wheels. smoldering incense and juniper could be smelt throughout the city and a constant humming of chants/mantras by people moving around you, heard. the visuals are spectacular...minus the chinese tour groups snapping photos of tibetans despite their attempts to shield their faces. it was obvious the chinese and tibetans don't get along so well and the chinese shop keepers are just trying to make a living, but have been given many incentives by the government to relocate there. such as, they get tax breaks, licenses to open businesses, a relaxed 1 child policy, relocation allowances and more...why wouldn't they want to make a better life for themselves...they do not know the whole truth, that's for sure. so the tibetans boycott the chinese shops and i did my best to do the same, but because the chinese outnumber the tibetans, it's difficult. another lovely fact is that the chinese have instilled a mandarin or cantonese only policy at the tibetan universities. no classes or degrees can be done in the tibetan language so they make it difficult for the tibetans who want a higher education...especially since they don't speak the chinese language (mandarin) in the first place. ugh.

kailash was another story. being up in the mountains at such high altitude was tough. we were both really tired and struggled up drolma la (tara's pass) it was 15,800 plus feet and i was suckin wind the entire way up. the crazy thing is that people...really dedicated people...do the entire trek in prostrations, like an inchworm crawling their way along the rocky, and sometimes marshy, path. we at least had to go faster than them, but at times that was even hard!! we both had trouble sleeping at such heights and had really wild, vivid dreams, but little other side effects of ams other than slight headaches. we did well physically, but were just sooooo tired. also, we were soooooo tired of eating instant noodles cause that's about all they had to eat in such remote areas. nepal sure has their trekking routes stocked for tourists. this was much different. 52 kilometers in 3 days...usually at least 8 hours a day...plus, 3 days of looooong driving across the country to get there through crazy, washed out roads. the chinese are paving a lot of the stretch, but it was intermittent with poor roads in between. we had a great driver in an old 4x4 land cruiser who carefully guided us through some of the worst road i've ever encountered! we have some video and i'll try to post it soon...along with pics.

so, needless to say, upon returning back to lhasa, our final 3 days were spent chilling at a great coffee shop owned by a guy from ohio, sipping lovely cafe drinks and eating delightful pastries...we are only human and need some westernization every so often! : )

oh, one other great point to mention...so, the dalai lama is forbidden in tibet...no pictures, no mention in any of his buddhist sect of monasteries or in his potala palace...nothing. also, no tibetan flags are allowed anywhere. but with the dalai lama, christy has a video of him teaching on her ipod. one night she was talking with our tour guide, tenzen, who is a devout buddhist and a really sweet, gomer pyle like, 32 year old man. we felt safe with him and didn't worry about the spies or being turned in by him, so she asked if he'd ever seen his holiness on video or heard him speaking. of course he said no and his eyes lit up. she set him up on the foot of our bed with the ipod (which i bet he'd never seen in the first place) and he watched the 10 minute video riveted...still as a statue, except for the tears rolling down his cheeks. at the end, he took the headphones out and gave the ipod back to christy. i asked him if he liked it and he said, of course! it was such a beautiful sight to watch him watching his spiritual leader...the feeling that overcame me was so overwhelming and inspiring and what tenzen felt certainly dwarfs that...truly one of the highlights of my trip.

another day, christy went to pabonka monastery, but i stayed back in town for some mental health. she had about 7 small photos of the dalai lama in her wallet and put them on the altars and as donations...which is illegal, but she thought the monks could hide them and keep them safe. for the rest of our time in tibet she was nervous the authorities were going to come and get her...convinced the hidden video cameras had caught her in the act! she made it out, though, unscathed, and now we're in bangkok doing spa and medical stuff...oh, and 3 movies! it's certainly down time before we head to delhi to meet up with an old peace corps friend of mine who's flying in from albuquerque to meet us for a trek up in sikkim. after this trek though, it's sun and beach city from here on out...relaxing and scuba diving and imbibing the ocean breeze and all it has to offer!

lots of love; hope to hear from you...xo, j

heading to tibet

...now there's a place i really never thought i would go, but then again, every where in asia i've been so far i never imagined visiting, so what the heck! we've had to acquire special visas to cross into the province and most chinese tell us it's a 'dangerous' place to go due to the news their fed, but actually i'm excited to be back in the high desert. the train alone should be a trip. our host in xining, emily--a friend of christy's from ann arbor who's living here, took the train and wound up puking in the bathroom due to such high altitude. it crosses a couple 16,000 ft passes en route to the 12,000 ft capital, lhasa. it'll take us 27 hours by train and apparently it's a shorter train due to the weight restrictions on the permafrost and demands on the engine. tickets are tough to get this time of year because many chinese students are traveling as it's their summer break and it's tibet's high season. i just can't imagine there will be as many people there as there have been in other chinese cities...packed every where you turn! i've added a 'link of interest' on the train and it's easy to research, but it's the highest train and goes through the highest tunnel in the world. it was an architectural wonder just to build the thing in such extreme conditions and isn't open all year round. since the olympics they've opened a 5 star, luxury train as well. ...we won't be taking that one! : ) we will be up there for 20 days though and covering a lot of ground despite the long sounding length of our trip...i think we'll be in the car a lot again, but thanks to the chinese and unlike the russians in mongolia, the roads are paved...whew! we've come to xining because christy's friend emily is here and to help acclimatize slowly. it will be the highest either one of us has ever been and we expect to feel some symptoms of altitude sickness but are doing the best we can to prep ourselves with homeopathic herbs, water and time. emily has lived here for a year and loves it. she's working with a ministry organization trying to help prostitute tibetan women rehabilitate into other professions. she wants to open a half way house and do many other wonderfully loving things. she has the heart of mount everest and has always been drawn to the tibetan culture and people. she's now studying chinese. last night we went out for a traditional hot pot meal, which is a big cauldron of oil divided in two: spicy and non, where you add veggies and meats to cook and then scoop it out with chopsticks being careful not to scald anyone at the table with flying drops of oil. good stuff. we leave for the train station in about a half hour and hopefully will be there by 2 or 3 pm tomorrow (thurs). i have lots of stories to tell, but so little time! another place we'll be seeing and attempting to circumambulate, is mt. kailash. it's another nice place to research...the history and spirituality is unprecedented. i wish all of you well and hope to have a good trip. Be in touch...i'll be back blogging from bangkok early the second week of september. love, j p.s. my sister vickie's getting married on the 28th! congratulations to her and mike! ...and sorry i won't be there.

photos from xian and the terra cotta warriors

photos from the sights of beijing

REPOSTED: more mongolia photos

REPOSTED: some shots of mongolia

hong kong and beyond

our last day in hong kong and we'll spend the next two nights on trains en route to xian to see the terra cotta warriors...yes, we suck, james! : ) i'm excited to see them and know i'll be enthralled with the whole place. and now, we have a contact there who'll meet us...a friend of our new friends in mongolia! hooray! but, hong kong has been a great reprieve from censored life in china. it's funny cause all the book stores have tons of books on china that are banned in mainland china. we bought a few and hope to read them before going through immigration in beijing... we'll have to ditch our buddhist/dalai lama stuff before heading into tibet, too. but alas, it has been nice discovering hong kong...it's really a fabulous city with tons to do and see and ...buy! ee gads...we were looking for a small pocket computer where we could word process blog entries and connect to wireless cafes, but it was all too confusing so we opted out. i did get a nifty double lens attachment to my current lens though. just screwing one on makes it more of a wide angle lens and by putting both on turns it into more of a macro...pretty cool, so i'll have fun playing with that! christy's out buying snacks and food for the upcoming train rides as our 24 hour trip here we were sadly under prepared and resorted to eating train food. now we're gonna rock it out... : ) yesterday we took a ferry over to macau to see the island. we only had about half a day there, but walked around, went to a museum and saw some local sights. there was this interesting phenomenon of "sheet meat" as christy calls it...i guess it's just a huge, piece of paper size, sheet of beef/chicken/pork jerky. they were offering samples and of course we got sucked in. but they also made lovely cookies and ginger candies, etc. really fun to sample things and we wound up buying some as a host gift for our friend in xian, and, of course, for ourselves to enjoy on the long train ride. we're leaving soon and heading back into china though for another 3 weeks....including tibet, so i'm not sure how much contact i'll have via internet. i hope you're all well and everyone's looking forward to the school year starting! for me, it's weird not to be at an in-service sooomewhere...but i'm adjusting... : ) lots of love, j

china makes me feel creepy

...and i don't know why, but perhaps it's that i just finished teaching (and learning...just ahead of the kids) about the cultural revolution, the long march, the 5 year plan, and the fact that mao killed more of his own people during that time than all the casualties lost during world war ii, combined from all countries involved! ...some 40 million are the estimates. but, all that aside, i've never been in a country that censors its people. i had never been blocked from facebook and my blog before, but now know what it must have felt like...albeit on a grander scale...when the journalists were being blocked during last year's olympics. the city of beijing is beautiful, but it's all so new and fresh and clean that it felt artificial. i can't say enough niceties about the people, however and that's what gave me the best feeling. people were friendly, polite, hospitable and unobtrusive. a friend i made while working in nepal...wenddy house elementary school...now lives in beijing. her name is miao...like the cat sound...and her fiance, well, we never did figure out his name, so just called him 'yo' and later gave him the english name of 'jackson'. but they came to our hotel 2 different nights to pick us up and take us out. the first night we ate at a local joint and the first thing plopped on the table was tripe...eww, but i ate some anyways and with the sauce it wasn't bad...reminded me of namibia and the goat 'parts' i was 'honored' to sample for my birthday. we had delightful conversation and once you get them out of public ear shot, they will tell you that they would like a democracy and more freedoms. people from one province cannot travel to another province without great difficulty. even miao...she lived in the province beijing is in and she had to get special permission to come into the city. seriously... i guess it's to try and control everyone flocking to the cities and creating kathmandus all over the place, but still. for her to have gone to nepal is a really big deal...most chinese never leave their district. the second night they researched and took us to a beijing duck place. peking style food which was delicious. we enjoyed our time with them, but it was short cause she just got a new job and works till past 6. she has an hour and a half bus ride to and from work every day so we didn't want to keep her out late, but she made such a nice effort getting together with us. she is really a sweetheart and we adore her fiance...very cute. i wish i could post photos, but am having trouble condensing my files. while in beijing, we also did a lot of sight seeing. beautiful architecture from the ming dynasty was fun to imbibe, but once again, the creep factor rolled in with tiananmen square and mao's mausoleum. we walked forever just to get in the line to see his corpse lying in state...i'd say a few miles by the time we followed the hordes around the building and through the well roped off and watched area. people were like fanatics pushing and running ahead any chance they got. it was crazy like a rock concert...but it shows how the people revere mao and there's still such a cult following as china continues to progress at the expense of some of its people and environment. everywhere you went there were souvenirs of the place, but also tons of mao items. don't get me wrong, i'm not naive and understand the u.s. is no angel either and has its past...trust me... eventually though, we headed out of china and are now in hong kong for a few days. it's refreshing and alive and enjoyable. hope your days are too. gotta run. love, j